A comment to the follwing video on youtube caused an odd conversation between Sidd Reader and GammaRay43:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ZUzPcrO8c
Iraq War Veteran Who Rescued Children in 2007 Apache Attack Describes Toll of Witnessing Killings
· SiddReader
Full respect to Ethan and everybody, who stops being a universal soldier. There is no way, to explain these killings as humanitarian act, especially not in such an illegal war.
· GammaRay43
(08.10.2010 19:17)
@SiddReader ..
My dear, How is the war illegal? A democrat congress gave us the votes. A democrat congress gave Bush the money? How about these quotes below? Please explain.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore
· SiddReader
@GammaRay43 Haha! You don't have to tell me, the democrates were the ones. The USA were the ones, who attacked Iraq, not one party. Obviously you still think, that tehre is nothing else, but the USA and that I must be a democrate, if I call this war illegal.
This war is illegal, because it was build up on lies and there was no agreement in the UN. It does not matter, which of your politicians was the worst in this case.
· GammaRay43
(09.10.2010 03:50)
@SiddReader ...
I take President Bush on his word that his reasons were the ones he stated. I cannot know what is in a man's heart. And neither can you. And the intent to deceive is key to calling a person a liar.
Now, again, tell me how the war in Iraq was/is illegal.
· GammaRay43
(09.10.2010 04:11)
@SiddReader
The USSR supplied vastly more weapons to Saddam that America did. So did France, China, Poland, Brazil, Czechoslovakia, Romania etc, etc. We were tiny in comparison. The data are out there for you to find.
And the UN issued what? Eighteen separate warnings to Saddam to prove he was not making WMD. He stalled for about 12 years. Like him or not, Bush had the cajones to do what he thought best. And the Saudis? Ungrateful at best.
I should tell you that I supported the war.
· GammaRay43
(09.10.2010 04:41)
@SiddReader ..what is the first casualty in war? the truth. We have had soldiers and so have the Brits et al that have been accused of war crimes by local stringers and the anti-war left. Most of these tales are exposed for the nonsense they are. Photo-shopped bombing targets in Beirut.
Climategate should have taught you to be wary of "authorities" whoever they are. And never, ever trust the media.
· SiddReader
@GammaRay43 It was not supported by the UN Security Council. The USA alone simply decided, that attacking Iraq would be okay for them. That was illegal.
Further all accusations were wrong, so even the internal support only was based on lies. In a civilized country this would be illegal, too.
GammaRay43 (09.10.2010 19:26)
I understand
" It was not supported by the UN Security Council. "
True, but that band of thieves and cuthroats had been stalling for more than a decade and on saddam's speedial forever and let's not forget the UN oil embargo scam. All were involved.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
"The USA alone simply decided, that attacking Iraq would be okay for them. That was illegal."
Nope, George Bush decided that enough of the clinton/dem pussyfooting and made a decision and stood his ground. I have much angst re the TARP fiasco he inaugurated, but on this....the man had cajones clinton never dreamed . Men sometimes have to make tough decisions and he did, endangering his run for the second term. Read Woodward's book re this decision. And only Congress can decide if a war is illegal if American troops are involved. Just because the UN crooks/cowards were lining their pockets and refused to do anything does not make it illegal. Nor does your stating so make it illegal.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
"Further all accusations were wrong, so even the internal support only was based on lies. In a civilized country this would be illegal, too."
Again, nope. calling a tree a bicycle changes nothing. America jurisprudence is not yet enslaved to the kleptocracies of the Third world or the ancient waring tribes of Europe.
Remember, the intelligence agencies of France and Germany and Israel all agreed with Bush. The fact that clinton's stalling for 8 years gave Saddam plenty of time to move the WMD. I believe the guilty party is Russia for your information, but I have little proof.
cheers
GammaRay43 (09.10.2010 19:30)
Did Bushitler make them tell lies?
Statements made long before Bush became president:
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
· SiddReader
Re: Did Bushitler make them tell lies?
So you tell me, that the propaganda of your politicians makes it any better?
A crime is a crime. If the criminal does not see himself as a criminal, this does not make him an innocent person.
Look at the damage that has been done. Look at the dead civilians, dead women and children. Look at the dead soldiers, young guys of your country, who died for your feeling, of what is right and what is wrong.
And look at the result.
Cheers!
Sidd
GammaRay43
(09.10.2010 22:14)
Nope,
I gave you many quotes of the opposition party saying what they felt or knew to be true. I have found no "propaganda" or "lies" from the Bush admin.
I am open to any proof you offer.
And you give yourself the right to call an act a crime. At one time slavery in America was legal and helping a slave escape was a crime.
This is a swamp you cannot drain my friend.
I have several Iranian friends who tell me that the meme that the world hates the US is not true. Why do so many Vietnamese come here and become model Americans?
The human race is a messy affair Sidd. Impotence chic has become all the rage. Don't do anything because you will step on this guys toes or kill that women. When the world boils over again, the world will look to America to send blood and treasure to save them.
Bet on it.
Cheers,
Byron
· SiddReader
Hi Byron,
the problem is, you know that you are guilty. I could understand, if you tried to explain. But you are not ready yet.
If you are, let me know.
Cheers!
Sidd
GammaRay43 (10.10.2010 05:42)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Bushitler make them tell lies?
When I was a child I played with childish things........I guess will stop playing with you now Sidd unless you give up your childish crush on che' and stop smoking crack in your mother's basement.
cheers,
Byron
GammaRay43
(10.10.2010 05:48)
This little gem must really twist your pee pee in a knot:
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
cheers,
Byron
· SiddReader
Fact is, there were none. So what?
And Pelosi voted against the war:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml
Cheers!
Sidd
GammaRay43
(10.10.2010 20:40)
you dunce.
George used clinton's CIA chief to verify them and almost the entire dem party machine agreed...and yes there were WMD.
How do you kill 10,000 Kurds without firing a single bullet?
Mustard gas and nerve gas.
And the British Intelligence Services still maintain that Saddam was trying to get yellowcake.
And on and on and on.....but you are a Loose Change chump who is still looking to arrest Cheney for 9/11. Right?
· SiddReader
Re: Re: Re: voices from the past
And why do you think, that this is a reason for the USA to invade a country without support of the international community, kill civilians including children, and let a lot of young guys of their own nation die?
GammaRay43
(11.10.2010 0:27)
Oh Sidd, you're such a brainless tool of your collectivist masters in the Politburo.
Who said we needed the support of the international community? You have not even a molecule of Cowboy in you missy.
Anyway, The Romanians sent troops, as did the Brits and the Germans and even Poland helped. Where DO you get your factoids? Don't forget the Czechs.
And what is it about lefties that you think that if you dangle the kids on tv or in print, you win the argument? Muslims have murdered more muslims and even muslim kidz than the US Army ever did.
This decision-making by consensus is what gave us the phony man-made global warming hoax, since exposed by Climategate. Are you even able to think for yourself?
cheers
· SiddReader
Germany did not support this war at all. The secret service gave informations to the USA. But there is a little difference.
Obviously you get your informations a little wrong there or you talk too much to your little robots, Byron.
(11.10.2010 03:02)
"German spies in Baghdad helped U.S. warplanes strike at least one target during the 2003 Iraq war despite Berlin's statements it was not involved in the conflict, German media reported on Thursday. "
http://www.dialoginternational.com/dialog_international/2006/01/german_intellig.html
Pathetic doesn't even come close to describing you Sidd. You're like every single lefty I met in college in the 60's. You're so brainwashed facts and logic mean nothing to you.
The USSR is STILL waging war on the US. The KGB and the GRU were so much more patient then we were/are. Insinuating "agents of influence" in the arts such as art, movies and textbooks were battlefield tactics. McCarthy was righter than you know. Add the anti-war lefties in the 50's and 60's who never left academe and you have .......you, the perfect lumpen proletariat. A mindless parrot who is too scared to do any thinking for himself. YOU run with the crowd, not against it Sidd. It's who you are.
The facts and logic mean nothing to you, I am sure you will agree. Read Hoffer's 'True Believer' and you will see yourself. The mixed history of America is better than the mixed history of say.....England, Russia, all of Africa.....all of Europe but you fix on one alleged "war crime" and fail to see the rest of the portrait.
I am not worried. I know the truth. I do a great deal of research before I address any issue. You are so much younger than I and you will live long enough to see the damage you and your foolish words rain down all around you. Not unlike the Germans who survived the war. Hiding their old Nazi tattoos and burning their old Nazi flags, they had the rest of their entire lives to consider their youthful recklessness.
Lenin had a name for you Sidd. It was " Useful Idiot".
Cheers,
Byron
· SiddReader
Maybe your dictionary got a little outdated, Byron. But you could try wikipedia and look up "USSR".
So the communists are after you. I knew, there must be a tragedy, if an old guy with bad manners feels the need to enlighten me with his confused views of the world.
To think, that this is why people have to suffer and die on the other side of the world...
The more you write, the more you reveal. It's not too entertaining, but interesting somehow.
Cheers!
Sidd